Winds of Controversy
August 14, 2009 – 10:10 amWith the release of Winds of Dune, the newest installment from the writing team of Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson just over a week ago, there has been a noticeable uptick in the rhetoric coming from both fans and detractors alike.
Winds of Dune, (originally titled as Jessica of Dune) is the latest of the new “inquil” books planned over the course of the next few years. In Winds of Dune we are taken to the time just after the close of Dune Messiah, when Alia (Paul’s sister) is trying to assert her authority as Regent of the Empire, while dealing with stopping Paul’s one time friend, Bronso of Ix, who has embarked on a campaign to bring down the legends and mysticism that started to take hold in Dune Messiah.
The story is seen through the eyes of Jessica (Paul and Alia’s mother). Jessica returns to Dune after receiving word of her son’s supposed death to walk a fine line between giving her daughter support while secretly helping Bronso. We also see the return of Gurney Halleck (the famous Artreides troubadour warrior), Stilgar (leader of the Fremen), and the ghola of the original Duncan Idaho (who now serves Alia as a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentat and is her lover). In this installment we again see flashbacks to Paul as a young boy, and the authors reveal more of the events that help him to become the Kwasitz Haldarach we saw in the original works.
Since Amazon set up a Winds of Dune community almost a year ago, it has become center stage in the ever growing dispute between the Orthodox Herbertonians, and fans of the new Dune books. Ronald Craig (aka Sandchigger), along with a number of other members of the most vocal detractors from the Jacurutu forum have been busy setting up numerous discussion threads (around sixteen as of today) in the Winds of Dune and Kevin J. Anderson forums and have aggressively attacked reviewers who post reviews that are favorable to the new book. In a review by Prester Dilly there are almost a mind boggling 84 comments that have been posted so far, by about 13 people. Out of these thirteen at least 8 of them are members of the Jacurutu site.
At the core of the dispute is their dissatisfaction over how Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson have approached the Dune universe. What started as complaints about “inconsistencies” with the original books, which are viewed as being “cannon”, and complaints about weak writing have degenerated into nasty comments, name calling, and what amounts to cyber stalking.
Ronald Craig has gone so far as to set up his own blog, Hairy Ticks of Dune, whose sole purpose seems to be to make fun of anything that is KJA related. He has also been ridiculing KJA on Twitter, as was reported by the keeping the door blog, and his cohorts at Jacurutu are now making outrageous claims like:
- Brian Herbert doesn’t really write the books, it’s all KJA.
- There were no new notes and outline found by HPL for “Dune 7”(which was released as two books, Hunters of Dune, and Sandworms of Dune).
- That it is a provable FACT that Tor/McMillan, Kevin J. Anderson, the HPL have conspired for years in an absolutely shameful campaign to remove negative reviews of Dune books at Amazon.
- That Kevin J. Anderson is paying members of his fan site to post good reviews at Amazon.
All of these claims are, of course, unsubstantiated; though a member of the Jacurutu crew (Mr. Teg) claims to work in publishing and has direct knowledge of how Amazon never removes reviews unless they are requested to by the account holder (in this case TOR and HPL). I am researching this particular claim and will post more on it later, though it seems to be related to the more industry as a whole, and not tied to any one author or publisher.
For the most part these claims appear to be part of an ongoing campaign of dissemination of misinformation and propaganda to the general public. This is being done in an attempt to get HPL (owners of the rights to Dune) and Tor to stop publishing new books in the Dune Universe, or to get them to at least consider changing authors.
With Winds of Dune hitting the New York Times best seller list at #15 in the Adult Hardcover Fiction category, making it the 14th Dune book to land on the list (including the original series by Frank Herbert), it seems unlikely that the Herbert family or the publisher would want to break up the Herbert / Anderson team.
Recently, in response to the continued verbal assaults against anyone that likes Kevin J. Anderson’s books, or the new Dune books, Fans have begun to get more active on the Amazon forums, and on popular social networking sites like Facebook, Twitter, and MySpace (you can find the KJA fan club on Facebook here).
What is the solution? Who knows. What I do know is that the extremism needs to stop. Both sides need to stop any rhetoric, and take some time to reevaluate the situation. David Brin, another noted author, wrote an interesting article on his blog about Disputation Arenas that I think could apply here.
Disputation Arenas were a place where select members of opposing factions, ostensibly the wisest, would get together to listen to BOTH sides of the issue. Brin goes on to say:
“the key features of any Disputation Area system must not only include excellent tools for argument-management , position-parsing, analytic tools and all that. It must also address to problem of how to get people (or advocacy groups) to come! And how to encourage an environment where ALL participants have to grudgingly acknowledge “Hm… I guess I need to take that into account.”
Would creating a Disputation Arena be practical and effective in a dispute such as this? I don’t know. I would hope that, at a minimum, both sides could agree to disagree in a more appropriate manner. It is something that should be advocated and explored by both sides.
There is no justifiable reason to keep harassing the authors and the fans, as Ronald Craig and the Jacurutu crew are. They have lost sight of the fact both sides of the issue have common ground in being fans of the original books, and that the Herbert family has the right to do as they see fit with Frank Herbert’s legacy.
I felt compelled to get into the fray not so much because of any fanatical loyalty to Kevin J. Anderson or Brian Herbert, but because I have a healthy distaste for what I was seeing. I firmly believe that authors have a right to write, and that readers have the right to read any book that pleases them.
The quality of any given book is subjective to the interpretation of the reader. Readers, in turn have a right to provide constructive criticism to an author in a responsible and respectful manner. If you do not like the books an author writes, you do not have to purchase it or read it. After all, writing is as much a business as it is an art, and if I writer doesn’t write what the majority of their fans want to read, they will find it more and more difficult to get published.
In keeping with the spirit of disclosure, I feel I should tell you that I am a fan of some of Kevin J. Anderson’s books, the new Dune books by the Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson team, and am an active member of Kevin J. Anderson’s international fan club.
I’ll close this with this quote by Peter Ustinov.
“Critics search for ages for the wrong word, which, to give them credit, they eventually find.”
The Restless Knight
***Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views and opinions of The Restless Knight, and do not in any way represent the views of KJA, HPL, Tor / Macmillan books, Amazon.com or any organizations associated with these entities.***
45 Responses to “Winds of Controversy”
KJASF to OH :
“LEAVE KEITH ALONE !!!!”
& why post a KJA-points article on
a right-wing hate site ?
that makes less sense than anything
I’ve seen yet …
CPT reply on August 14th, 2009 5:58 pm:
Which site is a “right wing hate site”?
Lloyd reply on August 14th, 2009 6:46 pm:
The ‘hate’ is coming from outside this site’s regular contributor base, not from within it.
By SandRider on Aug 14, 2009
Brian Conway (Restless Knight) neglects to mention that he is also a member of Kevin J. Anderson’s “Special Forces” site at kjasf.com. Check out their registration page. And that he posts online under an amazing variety of user names.
Not sure why this issue would be of interest to anyone here, or how anyone’s “rights” are being infringed upon, but you have fun in your “Disputation Area”, OK!
And thanks for the link to my site!
CPT reply on August 14th, 2009 6:03 pm:
Anyone who maintains a site maintains the authority to manage it as they see fit. People don’t enjoy “rights” beyond what the owner deigns to provide on that site. We prefer to maximize liberty here.
Be aware of the possibility that more than one “Conway” may post places as well. Many folks use nom de plumes and multiple screen names on the internet.
DuneFish reply on August 14th, 2009 6:42 pm:
Agreed – fair play that KJASF.com has the right to manage itself as it sees fit.
That doesn’t change the fact that in return for spinning the party line online (“KJA IS AWESOME!!1!” – prime example: see above) KJASF members earn points that go towards special gifts/rewards.
Jacurutu.com on the other hand is an free community: there are open threads highlighting key issues with the new books that anyone is welcome to reply to. Members post for their own reasons – not just for “gifts”.
RestlessKnight reply on August 14th, 2009 7:52 pm:
Yes, your site has no registration requirements, and Kevin J. Anderson has a closed community that is by invitation only.
Some things to consider are:
Kevin J. Anderson may have chosen keep his site closed to keep out his detractors, as this is a community that is given direct access to him and his wife. He most certainly has that right.
Kevin J. Anderson has a right to give away promotional items to his fans. This is a common practice across many industries.
Kevin J. Anderson has the right to ask people that are happy with his products to “spread the word”. Again, this is marketing 101 here.
Kevin J. Anderson does not ask for anyone to write a favorable review, nor does he offer any kind of compensation (monetary or other) for favorable reviews.
Fans post for their own reasons as well, and it is disingenuous to assume that all fans are posting just to get gifts.
I, personally, have received no payments of any kind for any review I have posted. I am not guaranteed any kind of gift for my continued support.
RestlessKnight reply on August 14th, 2009 7:55 pm:
That is correct.
The Conway here is not the same Conway that posts Restless Knight elseware.
Lloyd reply on August 14th, 2009 8:02 pm:
Got your back, Bro! These critics are beyond the bounds of fair play and a cordial exchange of views.
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 5:54 am:
Thanks.
Exactly the point I was making in the piece I wrote.
It is this kind of “open discussion” that is used on Amazon, and on any other public forum that has anything to do with Dune, or the current writing team of Brian Herbert and Kevin Anderson.
Lloyd reply on August 14th, 2009 7:25 pm:
Just because most of the posts are about politics & current events does not mean that the regulars here do not have lives, interests, hobbies, read fiction, etc. Your comment is mildly insulting.
SandChigger (Ron Craig) reply on August 14th, 2009 9:35 pm:
Quote from OP:
“The Restless Knight
http://www.armiesofchaos.com”
The owner of the website “Armies of Chaos”, Brian Conway, is the same “Restless Knight” that we know and who has been concealing his identity by posting elsewhere under various other names. Whether you have a “Brian Conway” who posts here regularly or not is beyond my caring. I mentioned Restless Knight’s name because he makes a point of mentioning mine while not revealing his own. He is a coward.
I don’t know what most of your posts here are about because I haven’t bothered to look at anything but this thread, and frankly I don’t care.
And if you found the above “mildly insulting”, get me started.
Nik reply on August 15th, 2009 6:47 am:
Ok. Start
It is interesting to me that you care, it seems, very much about a book series and not about other issues. Brian doesn’t post here that regularly compared to other contributors. If you’d like to help us diversify out topical matter, feel free to become a contributor. We think our participation guidelines are reasonable and fair.
ssgconway reply on August 15th, 2009 7:01 am:
“Mildly insulting” because you are not qualified to insult me as an equal. I’m done with you, and I wish you well with your crusade to protect the virgin purity of a mediocre-to-good sci-fi series. Who knows? someday you might be as big as the “Diatenics” boys!
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 12:59 pm:
I am offended, but not surprised by the “coward” comment. I used the names that you post under, as they related to the article being presented. If using a moniker in place of your real name on the internet makes you cowardly, then I dare say that I am not alone!
SandRider reply on August 15th, 2009 2:32 am:
okay, so Lloyd, you’re the ssgconway that supports Rick Perry and the sesch stuff ? Got that staight, then I think. And from a brief a look-see at this site, I’d say ‘right-wing hate-site’ is a fair assessment. You live down in the Piney Woods, I bet. Got you a bunker under the barn ? As a True Texican, whose people came out here with S.F. Austin, to me you’re a little more that ‘mildly insulting’. If y’all wanna live in an authoritarian, militaristic police-state, try Russia.
Thank the Founders for that Freedom of Speech !
{and delete this comment …. now}
Nik reply on August 15th, 2009 6:27 am:
If “right wing hate site” is a fair assessment, please point out, from your quick look see, ANY instance of hate. Just one will do. Political views people disagree with don’t constitute hate. Ignorance of the language is bad. Purposeful mis-use is worse. Right wing could, possibly, be attributed to one or more contributors but certainly not all. Unless “right wing” simply means not Democrat to the writer. Come on Sand Rider, where is any “hate” on this site?
Nik reply on August 15th, 2009 6:50 am:
Try Russia? Try Obama’s vision of America. Only a collectivist could equate people who believe in freedom and the actual intent of the Constitution with anything “authoritarian”.
ssgconway reply on August 15th, 2009 6:58 am:
I’ll personally delete any more of your schoolboyn taunts if you post here. Cowards engage in long-distance name-calling. You are neither rational nor worth one more iota of my time.
RestlessKnight reply on August 16th, 2009 6:52 am:
I saw your post over at Jacurutu about trying to get banned from here. I not sure what you think this will accomplish.
If you are thinking that it proves that there is no freedom of speech here, would be wrong. Freedom of speech does not extend itself to cover “hate speech”.
I think you should spend a few moments contemplating some of John Milton’s arguments on the subject of freedom of speech.
Milton believed that a nation’s unity is created through blending individual differences rather than imposing of one “Idea or Truth” over another.
This leads us to the most important concept about truth. To get to the truth, you must look at all points of view. He believed that it is the ability to explore the fullest range of ideas on a given issue was essential to any learning process. Then it is up to each individual to decide on what will become their own truth.
None of us is wise enough to act as a censor for all individuals.
Please feel free to contribute to the discussion in a more respectful tenor.
Restless Knight
By SandChigger (Ron Craig) on Aug 14, 2009
Get your facts straight. You’ve screwed up (deliberately?) The Orthodox Herbertarian view. Not to mention you screwed up the spelling.
I like that you call yourself a “Real American” and are part of the American Freedom Network, but you would censor our valid criticism of these two authors.
CPT reply on August 14th, 2009 6:00 pm:
No one has been “censored”. We have lives, jobs and community involvement and our Editor (me) doesn’t moderate the comment threads as quickly as some might like. I’ll try to do better. Thanks for the spell checking. We encourage our contributors to edit/spell check but we don’t refuse posts for spelling errors.
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 12:52 pm:
Feel free to enlighten me on the Orthodox Herbertarian view. I stated it as I see it, and I apologize if I chose a different spelling that you use. I can assure you it was not deliberate.
I do not advocate censorship here or anywhere else. I do advocate a return, by all parties, to a respectful discourse, with the understanding that we all have the right to have our opinion, and none of us have the right to forcefully impose our views on the others.
By Nekhrun on Aug 14, 2009
[i]“The quality of any given book is subjective to the interpretation of the reader. Readers, in turn have a right to provide constructive criticism to an author in a responsible and respectful manner. If you do not like the books an author writes, you do not have to purchase it or read it. After all, writing is as much a business as it is an art, and if I writer doesn’t write what the majority of their fans want to read, they will find it more and more difficult to get published.”[/i]
Preek argument 1. “If you don’t like them, don’t read them.”
It is difficult to imagine this being used by a true Dune fan, because anyone who can think this obviously doesn’t understand the motivations of a true fan; namely, that any suggestion that a story or book contains any hint of Frank Herbert creates an irresistable need to read it and see for oneself.
There is also the “Hope springs eternal” factor: Even many detractors have noted an improvement over time in the quality of the books. How can you know that you won’t like a new book if you don’t read it?
CPT reply on August 14th, 2009 6:27 pm:
Good to see that passion can still be elicited by books that people enjoy. Can’t argue with the personal choice argument
By Serkanner on Aug 14, 2009
The original Dune series is something a bit special. It is incredibly well written and constructed (I’d seriously encourage anyone who hasn’t read it to read it now!), it has an excellent story and is full of subtle nuances and hints that work perfectly together… it’s absolutely bloody brilliant.
Now, we can tell this guy WHY the pulpy, predictable, ham-fisted, badly edited, hack-jobs that are the new books are the total antithesis of the originals. We can tell him HOW the authors have fundamentally misunderstood some of FH’s key ideas on the hero myth and have failed to grasp even basic plot-lines within the series.
Disputation is all well and good, but the problem is: it quickly turns into a completely one-sided argument. “I like them, be nice” is an appallingly lazy response that simply doesn’t cut it if you’re trying to have a bit of a debate…
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 12:44 pm:
I can agree with you on your first paragraph wholeheartedly!
As to the rest, we have a difference of opinion. I will leave it at that, as this is not an appropriate forum to discuss the details of the books themselves, and is off topic for the published blog item.
DuneFish reply on August 15th, 2009 7:37 pm:
I’ll try to stay on topic – there are threads on Jacurutu for book debate (you should post in them
)
My point was, the source of this OH frustration (and this perceived lack of respect) is the inability of you and others to partake in cordial discussion. Any statement, no matter how backed up with quotes/citations/references is blanked or evaded.
What is the point of that?
It’s a myth that all opinions are equal. Everyone’s right to an opinion is equal, but they must be prepared to argue their ground. You and 90%+ of the rest of you just evade questions and hide between the same tired fallacies.
A is A, mate.
By DuneFish on Aug 14, 2009
You speak of open discussion on both sides? Anyone who wants to discuss Dune is welcome at Jacurutu. Several of us have threads asking in particular Conway “Redbugpest” but open to any BH/KJA fan to answer some basic questions about consistency and inconsistency in the new novels.
This debate has been going on for over ten years now, it started civil, and then when the quality became obviously lacking to OH standards we were systematically removed from any “official” site as our complaints became louder. After ten years of being ignored and belittled by the HLP, you get the arguments you see on Amazon and elsewhere. Some, like Sandrider above, have written off any attempt to make peace, and with good reason, no peace has been offered by the HLP, not even an acknowledgment of our disappointment with the severe lack of quality of the new books.
Instead they jokingly refer to us as Talifan’s, suggesting we are equivalent to madmen who throw acid in children’s faces.
We are only holding up a mirror to the new dune books to show obvious and embarrassing flaws in publication, editing, and quality regardless of the Dune name or the Author’s lineage.
As a student of literature and history, I know the OH have already won the war: Dune is a masterpiece work and will be remembered. The new books are an embarrassing side note and without a severe drop in literacy and IQ’s they will not be remembered.
BTW, if you read Winds of Dune closely, you notice that KJA is mocking the tea-bagger movement that this site supports.
Looking over this site, all I can say is this:
Conway, you wear a collar.
Nik reply on August 15th, 2009 6:20 am:
Having not read the “KJA” book or books I’m not aware of any political overtones but will take your word for it. I’m not sure what a “tea-bagger movement” is. The various Tea Party movements discussed frequently here are supported (and sometimes organized) by contributors to this site. Some have trouble distinguishing between the support of individuals versus organizations. Read our participation guidelines. We solicit any political/social viewpoint as long as it meets those guidelines. I support the Tea Party movements though because liberty and smaller constitutional government is important.
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 12:37 pm:
You said:
“…it started civil, and then when the quality became obviously lacking to OH standards we were systematically removed from any “official” site as our complaints became louder.”
That is an interesting statement. If by louder you mean more hostile in nature, then I can understand why you would be removed from an official site.
In any disagreement people tend to stop listening to what the other side has to say as soon as the language of hate creeps into it. The other important thing to consider is that there just may be no common ground to move to for resolution.
Stating your case clearly, and with a respectful passion is the best methodology to use here. You engage the folks at HPL, who hold the legal rights to Frank Herbert’s universe. They decide whether or not to change the way that they are managing what can be referred to as their property.
If they choose to continue to produce items that you feel are below the standard that you set for what is reasonable and good, you then have the right to:
Air your complaints in any open forum (in a respectful manner).
Not purchase or recommend their products.
Review the products (if you have read them) on sites such as Amazon.com (while remembering to adhere to the posting guidelines).
Comment on reviews that you either find helpful or do not find helpful (in a respectful manner).
You said:
“Some, like Sandrider above, have written off any attempt to make peace, and with good reason, no peace has been offered by the HLP, not even an acknowledgment of our disappointment with the severe lack of quality of the new books.”
I think that you have lost sight of this due to your collective feeling of not being heard or being marginalized by HPL (see your quote above). Instead you lash out at anyone who expresses an opposing view, using the language of hate to ridicule, derogate, or marginalize both the person and the view that they express.
HPL will probably never offer peace while the extremist tactics that have been used in the past continue.
HPL will (most likely) continue to publish books in the Dune universe so long as there is enough interest by readers (translation: sales income) to justify continuing the franchise. Writing is a business.
In some ways this can be viewed as a micro model of the conflict surrounding Israel and Palestine.
Perceived atrocities continue to occur on both sides. Both sides are desirous of peace, but are either unable or unwilling to take the steps necessary to achieve it. Instead, the status quo is maintained to everybody’s loss.
Restless Knight
SandRider reply on August 15th, 2009 1:54 pm:
Brian sez:” In some ways this can be viewed as a micro model of the conflict surrounding Israel and Palestine.
Perceived atrocities continue to occur on both sides. Both sides are desirous of peace, but are either unable or unwilling to take the steps necessary to achieve it. Instead, the status quo is maintained to everybody’s loss.”
so are you the Chosen People and I’m a satan-loving terrorist ? I’m unclear on your analogy…
but get this, get it good – I don’t want peace with you, Keith, the collar-wearing Herberts, any of it. I don’t know how many time I can say this, I guess I need a copy&paste template, but if you “enjoy” Keith’s books, if you think they are of some kind of “quality”, you have no taste, judgement, intellect, or literary knowledge that I have any interest hearing about.
and it’s certainly not to “everybody’s loss” -
Keith has never offered the real literary world anything of value. You, on the other hand, have been denied the value of Frank Herbert’s vision & philosophy – you are one of those who will never be able to grasp his ideas because of the tainting and dumbing-down and twisting of those ideas by Keith. But, perhaps you weren’t capable of of grasping those ideas, anyway….
now, get on back over to your blagh and fix the comments you altered for your own glorification ….
CPT reply on August 16th, 2009 12:19 am:
Why don’t you offer a submission on “Herbert’s vision & philosophy” so others can appreciate your attraction (if this is so) to it? My background in philosophy is limited to classical and enlightenment philosophers. I haven’t drawn much from science fiction writers as contributions to the greater good. I am kind of fond of some of Heinlein’s (attributed to) political ideas though.
SandRider reply on August 16th, 2009 1:20 am:
read the books.
(Frank’s books, not the other ones)
you could buy one from Brian Conway,
but his editions have all the ideas
Keith is re-writing redacted w/ a sharpie …
By Ampoliros on Aug 14, 2009
Same old misinformation and justification from Brian Conway … oh, wait, or are we calling you “Restless Knight” now?
(Jesus wept, Brian, get over yourself and stop playing D&D in your parents’ basement. You’re a grown man running around calling yourself “Restless Knight” like you’re some sort of 12-year-old World of Warcraft player)
And, yet again, I call your attention to the concept of “compensation.” You really, really need to look up what this means. Because that’s what your pal KJA is going: he’s offering compensation in the form of goods in exchange for his mindless drones mentioning his books on the internet. You can try to spin this any way you want, or to continue to be disingenuous, but you’re not fooling anybody.
Do we need to post KJA’s own words again? You know, the ones where he explains IN GREAT DETAIL exactly how the compensation will work? Or will you finally grow a pair and admit you’re just flat-out dead wrong?
SandRider reply on August 15th, 2009 6:04 pm:
hey, and while you at it, could you explain the 5% kick-back you get from amazon for selling their books from your site ? I’d like to get a piece of that ….
Restless Knight reply on August 15th, 2009 6:10 pm:
It is actually 4% (unless they raised it) and is an above board affiliate site hosted in the hopes of earning a little extra income.
Feel free to make a purchase…
CPT reply on August 16th, 2009 12:09 am:
Sure, happy to. And we can get up to 6%
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/
Join up. You have to code your amazon links with your affiliate ID
Barnes and Noble also has a similar thing going on.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/affiliate/index.asp?
CPT reply on August 16th, 2009 12:21 am:
Why do you oppose creative marketing? Just curious, are all who like things that you don’t “mindless drones” or are you just irked at the person who posted the article?
By TheDukester on Aug 15, 2009
RestlessKnight reply on August 15th, 2009 12:59 pm:
“I am offended, but not surprised by the ‘coward’ comment. I used the names that you post under, as they related to the article being presented. If using a moniker in place of your real name on the internet makes you cowardly, then I dare say that I am not alone!”
I certainly hope you are offended.
And here again you demonstrate your talent for refusing to address issues directly and cravenly running away. I call you a coward NOT because you use alternate names on the Internet but because you conceal the fact that it is the same individual behind them all.
You and I first became acquainted on MySpace two or three years ago. You were an annoying, “lick the ground he walks on” KJA fanboy back then and you’ve only gotten worse in the interim. After KJA banned me from commenting on his blog there—what, two years ago?—I can’t recall that we exchanged any messages or comments. I completely forgot about your existence.
Then on May 1 of this year you suddenly show up on my blog, on the attack, posting under the name “RaidKillsBugsDead” (clever, aggressive, threatening?). You concealed who you were until I managed to track you down and figure out that you were someone I knew from before.
You hide and you lie. How are you not a coward and a liar?
By SandChigger (Ron Craig) on Aug 15, 2009
Don’t worry, with practice you can easily use to learn to use the most common blogging system going and its comment functionality.
No Minute men here. I wonder if you have the capacity to discuss the Constitution with any degree of knowledge or accuracy. The historians (avocation as opposed to profession)who contribute here can.
This only “intellectually bereft” content recently appears to be kindly contributed by you.
We seek reasoned, fact based debate, not mindless name calling and simplistic unsubstantiated aspersions as you have been sharing. Please read our participation guidelines. If you have any actual issue or policy (see categories) that you may be capable of contributing. Otherwise, please desist with your vague and typical collectivist sheople canards.
SandRider reply on August 16th, 2009 1:30 am:
I can’t seriously discuss the “Constitution” with you, if you think the Constitution has had any effect on the federal government since January of 1861. America has been an evil, corrupt, Imperial power ruled by robber barons who own the system ever since. It has never been a noble or just enterprise. The America you think you love so dearly is a lie, and has always been so.
And before all you red-blooded He-men get all riled up, I formed this opinion after being drafted and sent to Viet Nam to kill stone-age peasants with weapons of mass destruction. I took the same oath you did, Lloyd. But I had my fingers crossed …
“There’s a reason it’s called the American Dream -
you have to be F—ing asleep to believe it”
-george carlin
By CPT on Aug 16, 2009
I think you should spend some time perusing the views expressed on this site. If you believe that our government would be better off returning to a state more consistent with the tenets of the Constitution, then you may find that you are in a group of like minded people.
As for your comment about serving in Vietnam, I will not take the time to comment on the appropriateness or inappropriateness of that conflict here in this forum, but will extend a heartfelt “Thank You” for your service to our country. The way that we, as a nation, treated our veterans then is a blemish that will never go away.
I may or may not agree with our governments decisions to go to war at any given time, but will always support the men and women that serve in our armed forces.
By RestlessKnight on Aug 16, 2009
Re: the original article.
Utter nonsense.
I would respond to the factual mistakes and misrepresentations of your article, but you’d ignore half of them, deliberately misinterpret the other half, and immediately change the topic of dispute if anyone challenged you to back up anything you’d said.
Suffice it to say:
* people who did not like the book should be able to write Amazon reviews saying so.
* people who disagree with others’ Amazon reviews about the book should be able to say so in the comments for that review.
* people should be able to write articles in the Amazon forums about the authors themselves and their writing, rather than just about a specific book.
* If there’s a question of whether a reviewer has been compensated by the author for writing a review, people should be able to challenge them on that.
These actions are not only well within the scope of Amazon’s review and forum systems, but they are the *purpose* of those systems – to give opinions about the books and to discuss the authors.
The fact you don’t like the opinions expressed in those posts does not mean those opinions are “extreme”, or that the posts qualify as harrassment and should be censored.
HBJ
By Hunchback Jack on Aug 17, 2009