The American Freedom Network

Morals, Murder and Abortion

Thanks to William for his response to our post “What is Murder to you“.  You can read William’s entire comment uninterrupted in the comment thread on the post.
Here we will look at and respond to William’s thoughtful reply.  It is very illustrative of the variance of moral value systems in American Culture and Politics today.  Traditional American values versus secular humanist values is how I see it.  You decide and then let us know what you think.

William’s comment
William // Feb 9, 2009 at 4:22 pm

W: Let me help you understand what I believe murder to be.
N: Thank you William
W: Murder is the taking of life of a being who is born alive and lives alive outside the mother’s body.
N: Actually, just to be technical, “Murder” is unlawful killing.
W: Murder is immoral.
N: I agree with you.  I make this value judgement based on age old moral and ethical traditions propagated by my belief system and those who share it.  How do you make the determination that Murder is immoral?  Besides just saying so.
W: Murder has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion.
N: I agree that abortion isn’t murder because since the infamously poorly formed (even leftists say so) Roe decision abortion was legalized (unconstitutionally) throughout the U.S.
W: Abortion is moral.
N: Really?  So to you, killing innocent human life is moral?  Very interesting.  What moral/ethical system informs your opinion to be such?
W: If you understand morality as you should then you have misunderstood murder as a word in language or murder as a concept in life.
N: Interesting vagaries rolled into one concise statement.  I understand morality.  According to who’s standard will provide me with understanding “as I should”?  Words have distinct meanings.  English is wonderful in supplying many synonyms and gradations of language to differentiate meanings. 
W: Murder is immoral.
N: We continue to agree on this point.
W: Anything else to do with language and linking of words not associated in any way except your blog is immoral.
N: Strange leap without any apparent logical underpinning other than perhaps a passionate opinion of your own.  I’ll tell you a secret.  Tens (or hundreds) of millions of people in the U.S. and worldwide believe abortion to be immoral and believe abortion to be equivalent to murder.  I’m not making that argument in the context of the U.S. because killing the unborn is legal in the U.S.
W: The reason is murder and abortion have nothing to do with each other and that is how it must remain.
N: Well let’s see.  They are both killing (ending a life).  Isn’t that something to do with one another?  Is it how it “must” remain?  Or is it simply how you *WISH* it to remain?
W: You have committed a moral offense against me and anyone else who believes morality is nothing but perfect when it is shared by all and honoured by everyone everywhere.
N: You have outdone yourself here with, what seems to me, an intellectually content free, feel good, vague and meaningless statement.  I bet it felt good to type though.  Issues are resolved by thought not feelings.  So is it YOUR “morality” that must be “shared by all” and honored by “everyone everywhere”?  We still haven’t determined from what ethos/philosophy and/or belief system your “morality” proceeds.
W: Murder is nothing at all moral in morality in life.
N: I believe you say again that murder is immoral and we agree on that point
W: Therefore murder and morality are incompatible and abortion has nothing whatsoever to do with morality except to say that abortion is moral.
N: Care to try to formulate that argument again?  I understand your position that killing the innocent unborn is a moral practice.  I’m asking you why you think killing the unborn is moral.  I don’t think that is defensible in most moral structures but it is a free country (kind of, mostly).
W: Anything else is immoral including your linking of these two words in your blog.
N: Please do elaborate.  Beyond you not liking my linking the words what is “immoral” about using the words abortion and murder in a post?  Do be specific please.  By the way, did you read the content of the post in question?  Any of the linked information?  The set of posts are related to baby, born alive, in Florida that was “MURDERED” after its live birth by the owner of the abortion clinic where the birth took place.
W: Please understand I am right.
N: I take this to mean that you assert that your positions, above, are correct.  I disagree.  I think your statements lack compelling intellectual foundations, any reference to common moral/ethical codes (other than what you think in your head) and don’t proceed very logically.  I do however appreciate your expression of your opinion and your willingness to share it with our readers.
W: If you understand morality you will understand that murder and abortion have nothing whatsoever to do with each other
N: Besides the common thread of ending a human life?  Would that qualify as a “whatsoever”?  Seeing a linkage between descriptive words for forms of killing seems to be a pretty strong commonality.
W: and morality is something we all must share perfectly in order to be happy and joy filled.
N: “Must share”?  Having a Bhudda moment?  How exactly do you propose that diverse creeds, faiths, philosophies foster “morality” that is shared “perfectly”?  If that is your path to happiness and joy, I pray you find such.  I have happiness and joy daily through a life filled with blessings, good fortune, good family and friends and a moral structure informed by thousands of years and my own very solid faith.  So even when the path is rocky and obstacles abound, joy and happiness are available to me.

We’d like to thank William one more time for illustrating the disparate views of morality that occur in today’s American culture that tend to split on *arbitrary* morality (What I say/believe is moral because I say so and I’m right) and a morality rooted in deeper history, culture and faith.